Navy Federal Credit Union Escalation – Short Sale Power Hour (special edition 03/12/10)

s-NAVY-FEDERAL-CREDIT-UNION-large Group 46:10, Arizona’s Premier Short Sale Team is holding Navy Federal Credit Union accountable.

AGENTS:  If you too are having trouble with a Short Sale with Navy Federal please contact Cutler Dawson.  His email address is [email protected]


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Kevin Kauffman

Kevin is a co-founder of Group 46:10. Over the last 10 years Kevin, along with his business partner Fred, and their team have closed tens of millions in real estate all over the country and have created some of the best training for agents in the market. Fred and Kevin are also highly sought after teachers whose work has helped agents all over the country build their own next level real estate business.


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About the Authors


Kevin Kauffman & Fred Weaver

Kevin and Fred the founders of Group 46:10. Over the last 10 years Kevin and Fred, and their team have closed tens of millions in real estate all over the country and have created some of the best training for agents in the market. Kevin and Fred are also highly sought after teachers whose work has helped agents all over the country build their own next level real estate business.

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Reader Comments


  1. kevin on March 12, 2010 at 8:55 am

    So the really cool thing about running this blog is that I can see the IPs addresses and hosts of the visitors and I can see our friends inside of NFCU are already watching…

  2. Wendy on March 12, 2010 at 9:08 am

    Wow! Intense! NFCU, HELP This seller and yourself and approve this SHORT SALE!!

  3. Wredan on March 12, 2010 at 9:16 am

    NFCU come on, do the right thing.

  4. Jason on March 12, 2010 at 9:22 am

    NFCU-It is time to evaluate your loss mitigation department practices and procedures, and work to help people instead of trying to kick them while they are already down.

  5. Brian on March 12, 2010 at 9:36 am

    UNBELIEVABLE!!!! I thought I was the ONLY one who had to deal with the nonsensical behaviors of Navy Federal. However, after viewing this extremely informative video, I now know that Navy Federal and its employees don’t want to cooperate with struggling borrowers!! Thank you, Fred and Kevin, for bringing light to this situation.

    One day, I hope an IP address leads you to Washington D.C. and tracks back to President Obama…then some change will TRULY happen in this real estate debacle!!

  6. Jeff Payne on March 12, 2010 at 9:59 am

    This is absolutley the most disgusting display of customer service by Navy Federal Credit Union! The borrower does not have enough money to do a short sale? What? Mr Dawson, you sir are a poor excuse for a decision maker. How does it benefit your company to NOT do the short sale. Why in the world would you even have a loss mitigation department? Do your members know how much money you are throwing away? They will now. Mr Dawson, if you have ANY business sense at all, or even if you can’t add 2+2, you will know that your best opportunity to get anything out of this borrower is to agree to the short sale and MOVE ON! If BofA forecloses, you can go purchase the property at the Trustee sale. Looks like you would spend a few hundred thousand to recoup a few thousand. I will be sending this video to all of my contacts at BofA and my contacts all over the country to let them know how you work.
    DO THE RIGHT THING FOR YOUR CUSTOMER AND YOUR CREDIT UNION MEMBERS! SELL THE DAMN HOUSE TO THE BUYER THAT YOU HAVE NOW. Feel free to contact me at 850-890-0132, if you feel that I am wrong, I highly doubt you have the nerve to do it

  7. Wredan on March 12, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Navy Federal, don’t wait for Obama…

    You can make a change!

    Just start with the man in the mirror!

    For inspiration:

  8. Keith on March 12, 2010 at 10:49 am

    Navy Fed……SHAME on you!!!!!!! Your members should be outraged!!! Your members are off fighting wars and keeping this country safe and protecting the freedoms of your loss mitigation department to make STUPID decions like this one. I believe Fred Weaver said it best…PULL YOUR HEAD OUT!!!! I like Jeff Payne will be sending this out to all of my database too.

  9. Sharlene on March 12, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Fred and Kevin work “FOR” the people and are greatly appreciated.

    Navy Federal work “WITH” the people.

  10. Two Stupid People on March 12, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    You have two people that are frustrated and probably don’t understand the full relm of the situation. You have a borrower complaining about paying back a debt that he created (one side of the story). Wait he has two homes? Is he short selling his primary or his investment property? I guess someone made a bad invesmment. We shouldn’t be yelling at a credit union, but the stupid people in the world that get themselves into bad debt. The government probably won’t help out credit unions, have you heard a credit union yet that was given money for being stupid. Probably not, but you heard Bank of America. You have two realtors that are probably having some money problems themselves and they want to scream and cry about it. Why would someone “work out a payment plan”, if they haven’t been able to pay their first obligation, this HELOC, why would they pay this new promissary note in good faith. Think the good faith went out the window when he stopped paying his mortgages. Is the amount of work worth the few thousand dollars from the short sale? I understand that this credit union is set up for the military and most of the members are fighting wars and keeping this country safe. This doesn’t give them a free ticket to not pay back their debt. If that was the case sign me up.

  11. kevin on March 12, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Dear Mr, “Two Stupid People” – Just curious as to why you didn’t use your real email address or name?

  12. Fred Weaver on March 12, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Hey “Two Stupid People”: My name is Fred Weaver and I’m one of the folks in the video. I can be reached at my office at 480-449-6642 if you’d like to talk further. Just let my team know that you are “Two Stupid People” from the Short Sale Power Hour blog and they’ll pass you over to me.

    I appreciate your participation in this blog. Can you help us understand your experience in loss mitigation? Do you run a loss mitigation department at a bank, negotiate short sales, or work in a loss mitigation department? Your point about the homeowner paying his bills WAS valid, up until the homeowner couldn’t afford them anymore.

    I acknowledge that the borrower has fallen short on his obligation to pay his bills – that is a fact neither of us can dispute. Given that is a fact, now we must all move forward. What benefit is it to Navy Federal to foreclose on the home and receive zero dollars at foreclosure? That just doesn’t make sense. Certainly Navy Federal could be ‘sticking it to the borrower’ by forcing the home to foreclosure rather then granting the short sale approval BUT then what does that say about Navy Federal?

    The borrower is working with Navy Federal by asking for a Short Sale. There is ZERO, again I repeat, ZERO benefit to Navy Federal taking this home to foreclosure.

    Your comments above around the government not helping credit unions, the borrower having multiple homes, agents in this market not making any money, the borrower not having a free ticket to make their payments etc are all ‘smoke’ that you’re blowing – none of these are relative to the mitigation decision that Navy Federal is screwing up – go research the word mitigation if you don’t know what that means.

    Foreclosing on a home is not the best mitigation tactic – even my dog knows this.

    Fred Weaver

  13. Frank on March 12, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    If this guy is unemployeed, why doesn’t he reenlist into the military? Isn’t that how he joined the credit union in the first place?

  14. Keith on March 12, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Two Stupid people….does that imply that it took two of you to come up with the stupidest bull s@#t I have heard in a long time….. If so your combined income must be a big ol….45k a year….those struggling real estate agents could buy and sell you!!!!! well they might have trouble selling that much stupid in one shot….. You two stupid people are the problem in this world ….

  15. Matt Pickle on March 12, 2010 at 1:34 pm


    I’m not sure I follow what you mean? I’ve never met someone who is unemployeeeeeeeed before. Would you mind clearing this up for us? Thank you.

  16. Brian on March 12, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    In response to “Two Stupid People”:

    I’m really hoping you become bold in life and actually say who you are (or better yet, call up the Realtors who are “screaming and crying” to discuss this matter). We all know you’re sitting in your cubicle at Navy Federal, refreshing every 10 minutes to see who else is going to comment on your blog post. Then you’ll giggle softly to yourself, instant message the person in the cubicle next to you (possibly even your supervisor), so you’ll have someone else to giggle with…and possibly even message Frank to fill him in on what Short Sales actually are.

    You must certainly not be in a position at Navy Federal to actually make a decision. If so, you wouldn’t be spending time on blogs, chatting it up with other Realtors who actually work for a living, not just collect their pay check every other Friday. You would be taking action to mitigate a loss for your company you work for and represent.

    Please continue with your education of short sales; I highly recommend watching the other videos on

    …and Frank…I’ll be praying for you man…

  17. Keith on March 12, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    I hear the military is bring back the slogan ” we are still looking for a few good men” I hope that spills over to Navy Fed.

    Correct me if I am wrong but the name Navy Federal Credit Union implies ties to the government …no? So no bail out was needed by Navy Fed since Navy Fed operates on the Governments money.

  18. Jaime on March 12, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Frank, perhaps the Seller is too poor to join the military? According to Navy Federal he is too poor to complete his short sales…..? I say instead of arguing over this Navy Federal should recognize that the Seller is being proactive about his situation and he is trying to help himself, which inturn also helps his lenders. A win/win situation vs. a lose/lose. I don’t understand why this is so hard for lenders to understand.

  19. Paul Sanchez on March 12, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    I can not believe this information that I am hearing about Navy Federal. This is the first that I have heard from it. And my first gasket that was blown was the fact that they are marketing themsleve with a military branch within their names, which was used to pull in customers that would feel as if they could trust a NAVY federal credit union. That burns me to the core that people are being lead astray. And this taken right from the front page of the website

    President & CEO,
    Cutler Dawson
    “As we begin a new decade, I am pleased to report that Navy Federal remains safe, secure and well-positioned to respond to your financial needs in 2010.”

    That is a bold face lie. After the information that these two gentleman have put out, this is a complete lie from the CEO himself. This sounds as if the Entire corporation must have been within that trickle down effect that seems to be going on. LEadership is corrupt, so everyone follows. This disgust me that you will put a loyal customer out of their homes. I hope the NAVY is looking into this as well, this is a reputation online. Action needs to be done.

  20. Coach Collard on March 12, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    WOW! I don’t even know what to say!
    I’ll be praying for our enemies, the lenders, and hope they will get their heads out of the sand, and do the RIGHT financial thing!


  21. Jeff Payne on March 12, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    This is to the post from Two Stupid People, AKA Culter Dawson. It is pretty sad that you won’t sign your name to post that you are so against. You have zero credibility until you man up and sign your name. My name is Jeff Payne, my email is [email protected] and my direct phone number is 850-890-0132, feel free to give me a call so that you can educate me on your worldly knowledge of short sales. In case you have been living under a rock or in a bomb shelter, unemployment numbers are skyrocketing, people are struggling to make ends meet and many, many people can not afford their homes anymore. This is where Fred and Kevin come in, they are simply doing the same thing that Navy Federal should be doing, mitigating a loss. Instead Navy Federal would rather let this property go to foreclosure and get NOTHING, ZILCH, NADA! In case you didn’t make it out of the first grade, that means that Navy Federal get no pennies, no nickles and no dimes, nothing since they are not in the first position. I can also certainly tell you that these 2 realtors you speak of sold a few hundred homes last year, again if you can handle basic mathematics, 200 homes sold means they made a nice living. You should stop assuming and look at the facts instead of being 2 stupid people.

  22. Paul Sanchez on March 12, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Ok so I just read the TWO STUPID PEOPLE blog, all I have to say is YOUR A FAG.

    And I can not believe what you said. Coming from a mouth of a real soldier(Me) who is on a deployment, all I have to say is, what we fight for if freedom. And what you work for is HELL. I am disgusted that you said, and I quote: “I understand that this credit union is set up for the military and most of the members are fighting wars and keeping this country safe. This doesn’t give them a free ticket to not pay back their debt. If that was the case sign me up.”

    I find it funny that the man who is being accused of his fraud is the same one who would ONLY join the Military for a FREE TICKET. Let me tell you buddy, im not in the Army for the money, and if you gave a shit at all about your supposed support for the military you would know and see that military soldiers do not make a lot. And the fact that you did not put your name makes you what I call a Closet Terrorist. Terrorist is someone who is knowingly out to harm someone for there own status and position. And you fit the signs. You know the harm, you are deliberately forcing it into action, you are trying to dequise it, and you are trying to shift blame. You make me sick, and I hope that you get what you deserve. I will pray for the Lord to show you your corruption, so as to make you realize your terriable acts and to bring your ownself down. My name is Paul Sanchez, and you can email me at [email protected] and i’m going to have a field day sending this to some people I am very aquanted with like Dave Pratt, morning show personality and someone that may be more popular John McCain and maybe another great supporter Ann Coutur and just for fun we’ll email this to the offices of Obama, but i just think that one will be fun, because I have some other thoughts on that one. But i hope that your memory foam pillow tonights gives out and loses its memory just to make you uncomfortable and pissed.

    From: Deployed Soldier Fighting for your freedom to say, “If I could get a FREE TICKET as well, SIGN ME UP, otherwise my life is much better screwing over brave men and women of our country”

  23. Jeff Payne on March 12, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Paul, Thank you for your service, please know that we appreciate you and the others that put themselves in harms way so that we can be free! We are proud to be Americans!

  24. Amber Weaver on March 12, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    Mr. Two Stupid People,
    What are you thinking. I hope you never lose your job and need the help, support and mercy of others. There are bigger things than just money going on here. You clearly have no regard for others, you are making a lot of assumptions and have a low sense of empathy. Those two stupid people you talked about are passionate for their client and are fighting for what they believe in. I am not sure you believe in anything. If you had a small portion of the drive and passion Fred and Kevin had then you would be making this work and not make anonymous comments. You show no accountability for your comment, your job or your client. How you do one thing is how you do everything. Good luck in life.

  25. Dustin on March 13, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    If i owned a credit union, i would do what is in the best interest of my credit union. Given my degree in Mathematics from a small midwestern university, i have the luxury of knowing that thousands of dollars are more than no dollars. Didn’t even need a calculator. I’m just that special. If anyone at the Navy Credit Union would like to employ my services to help sort out the use of greater than and less than symbols, please contact me…[email protected]

  26. Dustin on March 13, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Also curious what John A. Lockard, Chairman of the Board of Directors would think about this. He’s a highly decorated veteran. I can’t believe that he would be too proud of the NFCU and their behavior here. What do I know though, i don’t even OWN a credit union

  27. John Randall on March 15, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Wow, I can’t believe the amount of venom we are all throwing around here. Two Stupid People sure stuck his snout in a bee hive. I was going to compare NFCU to the Exxon Valdez… I decided to take this in a different direction. Now, NFCU agreed to take on the risks of a second and a third loan on one of their members… no, let’s not stop there. When NFCU agreed to finance three houses for one of their members and be in 2nd and or 3rd position on all of them… they had a drunk at the helm. In Nevada we often put things in gambling terms. When you play 21 and you have a strong hand and the dealer has a week hand… you want to get as much money on the table as you can to maximize your “up” side. For instance, if you have two aces and the dealer is showing a 6. SPLIT them bullets! Your odds of winning are high for each of your two new hands. If the house rules allow it and your next cards aren’t a 10… you might even double down and get even MORE money on the table. NFCU put as much money on the table with this borrower as they could. They took risk after risk and expected to be rewarded for it. I’m sure they didn’t loan in 2nd and 3rd position out of the goodness of their hearts. I’m sure they didn’t accept an interest rate that was equal to the 1st’s. Now, just like when a winning streak comes to an end in the casino… NFCU has to read the cards and weep. They split their aces when they saw the house’s 6. This time the house had a 5 in the hole and drew a Jack. “21! Casino wins. Thank you for playing.” All the money at risk for an expected payoff goes away. NFCU took a risk. They are going to get stung and stung HARD. The borrower also took a risk. He isn’t going to walk away from this without any scars. This whole situation is a Lose-Lose proposition. All the professionals can do now is try to mitigate the damage. The Real Estate agents try to sell the property for the highest price and the loss mitigation departments are supposed to try to net the most they can for the bank. It sure looks like NFCU forgot that they have a fiduciary duty to their investors.

  28. Michele on March 16, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    I’m so impressed with what these 2 men will do for ONE of their clients. It truly is a labor of love — they are only getting 6% commission (which apparently they had to fight for) and they are willing to stop working on other files and other money making tasks in order to post this video in the hopes of getting NFCU to make the RIGHT decision, one that is in NFCUs best interest, to help their client (who has a very common hardship in these difficult times). In fact, the more I think about it — I think there could be a case for discrimination by NFCU against this particular seller. Shame on you Navy Federal Credit Union!!

  29. Lorie Gould on March 18, 2010 at 4:51 am

    Well, Two Stupid People, you must have been looking in the mirror when you named yourself because you certainly are not speaking about Fred and Kevin. If you think the problems in the housing market and the economy are “stupid people who get themselves into bad debt” you have lost touched with reality.

    You must not be paying attention to the unemployment rate or the under-employment rate. Many people cannot afford to pay their bills these days because they have been laid off or they are making less.

    And the banks do have to accept some responsibility for todays market. The banks and/ or their representatives had no problem encouraging appraisers to “get the value needed” to make the loan even when it was clear that values were increasing higher than they should.

    The banks and/ or their representatives had no problems making a loan for a person who had a history of not paying. And the banks had no problem making a loan for a person with no proof of income, no proof of assetts, and no money down. the list goes on and on.

    Two Stupid People, you refer to someone making a bad investment. But aren’t the banks just as guilty for making bad investments? Afterall, when they make a loan they are investing money for a return of profit. For a huge return of profit!

    Lets face it the ways of the past are biting in the ass. Two wrongs do not make a right. We can play the blame game for years to come but that does not solve the problems of today. I do not see how a bank sticking it to a homeowner by forcing foreclosure versus accepting a short sale is beneficial for the bank or the homeowner so it is a lose – lose at the tax payers expense. If it is the tax payers money that is funding the bailout which is bailing out the banks that made bad investments then why should the tax payers who are struggling to pay their mortgage not benefit from the bailout? And it is just plain stupid to think that righting a wrong of default is forcing a foreclosure which damages the market further which in turn damages the banks other customers by reducing their home values even further. What Navy Federal is doing is just plain stupid! At this point, is the credit union acting in “good faith”.

    And your comment about “two realtors having money problems” themselves shows how stupid you are. You obviously are not aware of the number of homes that these two guys are selling each year. Nor are you aware that it is the lack of customer service within the banks, the lack of organization within the banks, and the stupid decisions made by the banks that are giving these two realtors their entire platform to make a lot more money. Do you not see their following? If the banks were doing the job the government has been asking them to do, the economy is screaming for them to do, and the homeowners are pleading for them to do then we would not be seeing these video blogs.

    Everyone should remember that bad service is talked about much more than good service.

  30. David on March 19, 2010 at 8:01 am

    Seriously, NFCU blows! I lost my job and although I had savings that I used to pay my bills while I was looking AND I have never been late making any payments… they immediately froze my credit card, just because the balance was 2k out of 30k.

    Good thing nothing serious happened to my family during that time that I would need some help. I did find work a few weeks later, but it taught me to never inform NFCU of any hardship… You just can’t do the right thing with them, ever… they are SO out of touch with helping their members.

    Today, I’ve moved all of my money and loans to a real bank. F’off NFCU.

  31. Maryann on March 19, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    I am going through the same problems with NFCU. We have tried and tried to get the negotiating committe to approve the short sale, but each time it gets denied.

    Here is the big issue! The negotiator already approved the negotiated terms, but said that she would need to pass it along to a commitee in which will have the final say. Well here we are and DENIED! WTF, they even threatend us by saying let the house go into foreclosure.

    To make things even more complicated, the original negotiator quit and now we have been assigned a new one.

    I hate NFCU and already removed any linked accounts and applied for a different credit card from a different company. I will NEVER do business with these A$$HOLES again!

    Fred, what was the outcome of the short sale that you posted on this video, did they finally agree?

  32. Saul on March 24, 2010 at 10:32 am

    These words are direct from the Members site.
    As we begin a new decade, I am pleased to report that Navy Federal remains safe, secure and well-positioned to respond to your financial needs in 2010.

    2009 was a year marked by many successes for Navy Federal and its members. Over 200,000 new members joined the credit union. Deposits grew by $3.7 billion – proof of the trust and confidence members have in Navy Federal. We began the year with a pledge to make $6 billion in new mortgage loans, and we exceeded that promise. We introduced a new cashRewards credit card and by year-end had issued over 43,000 new cards.

    Continued improvement in member service was also a focus in 2009. Ten new branches were opened. Our call center answered over 17 million inquiries from members. Access to free ATMs was expanded, bringing the total number of free ATMs to over 40,000. And, we placed our first ATM on the African continent to serve the needs of the military serving at Camp Lemonnier in Djibouti.

    Looking ahead, 2010 shows even greater promise. Mobile banking is now live, providing portable account access. Ten new branches are scheduled to open. Providing affordable mortgage loans is a priority, and we intend to surpass the $6 billion granted in 2009. Credit is also readily available for cars, home improvement projects and other needs. We’re working on enhancements to Navy Federal Online® to better serve our 3.4 million members.

    I would like to begin the New Year by thanking you for your loyalty and trust. You can count on us to be there for you, today and into the future.
    Cutler Dawson

    Here is their Vision Statement.

    Navy Federal Credit Union will
    perform with such excellence that all
    present and potential members will
    choose Navy Federal as the preferred
    source for their primary,lifetime
    financial services.

  33. Becky Anderson on March 26, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    I’m thinking that they must be getting more money(insurance/bailout) from the government if they let the home get foreclosed on. Is it pure stupidity or is it better for the Credit Union to allow the foreclosure because of financial incentives that we don’t know about? I noticed this last year that Chase bought back one of our short sales for less than our short sale offer would have net the bank. WE had a 90k net we couldn’t get them to budge, then they bought it back for 84K, I think something fishy is going on.

  34. Rebecca Bulkeley on April 17, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    I just listed a home built in 2006 by a builder who used chinese drywall to build by client’s home. Navy Federal has been less than understanding of the hundreds of thousands of dollars this toxic home will cost them unless they accept a short sale on the home.

    Perhaps Navy Federal’s membership will understand more once I bring this item to their attention.

  35. Jill Rother on August 25, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Kevin and Fred,

    Can you please send me the link to the Navy Federal video you have because it has been removed from this site. I want to show my good friend/KW agent this particular video because she is the next ninja short sale agent for the west valley!! She not only thinks in the Outback but was born there!! Thanks.

  36. Stuart on October 20, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    Navy Federal Union refused to work with my ShortSale Company even though they had many offers. They lied about missing paperwork, refused to return calls etc. They forclosed on my house in 2009; sold it for 25 thousand more than I owed on the primary mortgage and did not apply a penny of it to the secondary mortgage. All my accounts reflect being payed off and my credit report reflects all loans with a balance of zero but Navy Federal claims i still owe them 38 thousand dollars from the secondary mortgage even though they show a balance of zero.

  37. Very good blog! Do you have any tips and hints for aspiring writers?
    I’m planning to start my own website soon but I’m a little lost on everything.
    Would you advise starting with a free platform like WordPress or go for
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  38. David Hancock on August 10, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    I am a realtor doing a short sale with Navy Federal now. The first lien holder has agreed to give $6000 to Navy Federal who hold a second. Navy Federal has agreed but wants the seller to do a promissory note for the balance. The first lien holder will not allow this. Any suggestions?

  39. Kevin on August 12, 2013 at 7:18 am


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